If the cheater could only understand why we need details — it may make their life easier — I think they may be forthcoming. Hi Doug— I just read your newsletter with regards how to approach taking about the affair. You stated Gottman and his observance of how women in particular should approach any conversation with a softer approach. I find this curious and totally sociologically stereotypical of how women are expected to behave. I agree that all BS would get more info if the subject is broached in a calmer manner resulting in the goal of getting information.
Lol you men are such delicate little flowers and we women really have to walk a fine line with you guys it seems. I can only compare this to the last election. You men should realize lots of women are very good at this. Especially sociopathic OWs and potential OWs.
I see it all the time. Well was it before or after the birth of our first son. Before or after the birth of our second son. Before or after her divorce. Are you kidding me??? Those are some pretty important timelines by which one can measure. I agree, eventually you get to a point where banging your head against the wall is not longer fun! I gave up too and in the end, really what difference does it make. I believe to do honestly forget but sometimes I wonder if my h has early onset dementia!!!!
He can remember the most ridiculous trivia but not her last name. Must be early Alz…as if. TH, Yes so maddening. I can ask him too about major vacations that he loved and he has zero idea when it was. He has a terrible memory from growing up. I think that must say something about him and I think that he was so selfish.
Since dday he is not necessarily on top of an exact date like dday but he has a much better recall. I think he is less selfish and more aware of others. I think there is a kind of amnesia that develops after being in the affair fog for a long time.
Essentially, your brain is doped up pretty continuously. If you talk to a drug addict, there are whole periods of their life that are a jumbled confusion to them. Just wanted to share an interesting thing that happened last night.
I said, well, she went ahead with it and my wife was pretty mad at her. She is the one who uncovered your affair. The affair really shook her trust in you. It all just kind of spilled out before I could even think.
My wife looked dumbfounded, maybe even angry. I really thought she would just get off the couch and storm off to bed. That is great for her to react that way. That is major progress and insight. My husband used to be so defensive even pre affair. But he is much better now. I try to be respectful much like you were with her but also just put it out there. I am not going to tip toe around his actions. But until I really put it out there, I think she felt they were insulated from her affair.
A year ago our night would have ended with both of us hurt and angry. Last night we went to bed together as usual. There was no lingering defensiveness or coldness from talking about her affair. Puzzled I would say that is progress, for sure. SI, I agree with you. It is that little light at the end of the tunnel to keep you pushing along and moving forward.
I cheated on my wife and, upon returning to her, I answered all her questions but one. She wanted to know where I slept with the OW. Rather than be specific, I chose general answers. My wife cheated on me many years ago. When we agreed to try reconciling, I asked her where she slept with the OM. I drove past that place every commute to and from work. Every time, for a very long time, I spun up images of what took place there.
I chose not to divulge any exact location because I believed I knew better, through experience, that she would regret hearing that info. I feel strongly that not all info should be disseminated, but I feel just as strongly that any withheld info must be supported with a reason and lovingly explained. Thank you for that honest answer. It could really destroy whatever is left of the M. I guess sometimes that is the truth — it is that bad. Are you able to provide her that explanation as to why you are not disclosing the information?
I think part of it is the unknown and what our imaginations do with the unknown. I remember asking my husband if either woman had been in our home or met our kids. He looked at me like I was the craziest person he knew or had horns growing out of my head. But for me how was I to know.
I thought the fact that he did what he did meant he was capable of anything. You mentioned your wife cheated on you first. Just a curiosity— did your subconscious mind believe that it might be okay if one day you cheated to even the score?
This is something I have always wondered about— not about you and your wife specifically but in cases where one spouse cheats first and then the other spouse cheats years later. Thank you for your honesty and I do agree with your idea of disseminating some ideas and not others as long as there is a valid reason and a loving explanation.
It sounds somewhat patronizing. SI— nope I agree with you. I say give her the info. She can do with it as she sees fit.
Matter of fact even driving by a different hotel in a different state with the same name triggers me.
But I wanted to know. My husband being the lying cheater lived his life never being honest because honesty made people avoid him or in his words people wanted to control him when he refused to be honest. Honestly the lies and deliberate deception created such an intense hatred and rage in me at his constant lying and covering with more lies I just went on a truth hunt from the lowlifes he used.
And the most painful part was after his suicide the sewer rats climbed up to be the ones to tell the truth. You screw up, you own up to it and take the consequences, no lies or excuses. My X-H knew this before we even got serious. We went so far as to set boundaries as this site and Dr. I felt this was common sense at the time. This was to no avail. Once it all came out, not only did he have an affair and lie about it, he made up things that made him sound like not only a good man and husband, but one that went above and beyond what a good husband would do.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt so much that it now makes me ill knowing the reality of his true character More accurately lack of any redeeming character and our life together. People will be what they are and there is no changing them, I honestly believe that my X-H is one of those people and is actually proud of himself being able to put things over on everyone while doing what he wants to, yet avoiding any consequences.
People will tell themselves whatever they have to — to look at themselves without feeling bad for lying and cheating. I heard so many of those lobbed at me. So is owning your feelings and discussing things like an adult with your spouse. But to choose to cheat is cowardly behavior. And so is lying. And so is denial of issues or problems.
You cannot bury your head in the sand for everything. My heart still goes out to you and what you and your family had to go through.
I wanted to say something about your marriage never being a real marriage. I am saying this to console you. What your husband did does not diminish all of the honesty, the heart, and the soul that you put into your marriage. Do not allow him to take that from you too. From your actions, you most definitely had a real marriage and I am sure what could have been a great marriage if he had chosen to step up to the plate.
And that goes for all betrayed spouses here. No matter what your wayward spouses did, you all had real and true marriages. The character Slimer went and slimed everything he came into contact with. This was because it was the nature of Slimer to do so. Part of recovery is showering off those memories and cleaning them up. Because if you were having fun at the time and all felt good, then realize it was your genuine state of mind at the time. Becky, allow yourself to keep the good memories as good because you were experiencing them as good at that moment.
And you are an excellent mom too— probably the one who held the family together despite cystic fibrosis and other challenges. Your good actions and good deeds cannot be taken from you regardless of the actions of your H. I gave my husband a real marriage what he gave me and left tot me was his fantasy that as long as he hid what he did and lied to cover his sick choices then I would never know his life was like a house of cards lots of empty wasted time on making the outside everyone saw yet the inside was ugly nasty and empty of anything of value love honesty faithfulness depth of emotions.
I have survived so much and his neglect and abandoning me to deal with the tough hard parts to life have created a strong confidant woman who is still capable of loving deeply withy whole heart.
You want to talk avoidance? Last night I got up the nerve to say we needed to talk. The first time in 2 years. I said it nicely, that I knew we both had a lot on our plates but that I needed help with some things. He slept in the guest room.. Guess I got my answer. But I must say those four words could be the four most dreaded words strung together in the English language.
Just hearing We NeedTo Talk makes my stomach jump. My h used that on DDay. Immediately I knew life as I was living it would never be the same. What do you want for dinner? Maybe try approaching him not in the middle of the night? Or even when going to bed.
Escaping to the guest bedroom is an easy getaway when your timing is that. Does that make sense? This would be a deal breaker for me. It was in fact. I made it very clear you talk or I walk! I am 2 years on from D Day and my fog has begun to clear. A pissed off woman does better research than MI5 His affair commenced in the Autum of this he completely denies, despite me seeing lots of facebook posts of flirting etc, she had also attended a musical event in July , I later found lots of photographs of her.
I took one look at her and knew there was something going on, whoever said listen to your gut, boy were they right!!! What hurts me the most, is that his Dad knew about the relationship this was confirmed to me by a close friend of his farthers, who said his Dad had been very worried about his son for obvious reasons. My partner is a musician and we have lived together for 14 years and have an Autistic child.
I have been the main breadwinner for all of this time, ran a home and cared for our son. I have recently lost my Dad and it is his funeral. I am aware people with Bi-Polar are pre-disposed to affairs and I have tried to be understanding and move on. I even spoke to the OW, he had of course told her and several of our friends lots of lies to justify his behavior. This backfired on him because people knew the truth and his reputation has suffered, even after 2 years people have long memories.
I just want the hurt and resentment to stop, I have tried so hard. I also have the feeling that this is not the first time he has been unfaithful, he confirmed this to my best friend and the OW I will of course never get him to admit the truth. How can I rebuild a relationship with someone who is in denial of the truth and blames the OW for everything Really. Christina— wow you certainly have a road to hoe with all that. Seems you have personal challenges on many fronts. I believe you should ask yourself why you are really staying in your relationship with him.
Certainly you take your child and his condition into consideration with regards to your decision making. I understand you love your h but many times we use our live state as a crutch, an excuse even and act very co dependently.
Can you try to detach emotionally from him? I know once i implemented this my life and all my relationships started to improve.
Also i suggest therapy for you. You need someone with expert advice on how to live your life and conduct your relationships with the challenges you have.
But first you must take care of yourself. Put your own oxygen mask on first. Then move on to others. Knowing that your h is a diagnosed bi polar is good information to have to arm yourself with strategies on how to go forward. It seems better efforts would be to help your autistic child.
I firmly believe once one has a child life is no longer about them but rather about raising that child. Thank you for you kind words, I am in counselling at the moment and looking at the very strategies you have suggested.
I have to plan financially, because I will need to make sure I have some money for solicitors as this will be difficult. He left for 3 months , went to live with his brother and he never left me alone the whole time we were apart. He has been extremely dependent on me and I am quiet sure things will get ugly. It does not have to get ugly. You may have to jump thru some hoops during the actual divorce to keep him in check and not go off the deep end.
I would take the stance that given his selfish risky behavior you must look out for your child. I would be kind and reiterate your compassion for him but continue to stealthy move forward with the separation. First you must detach emotionally from him. You must look at the bigger picture and that is the welfare of your child. Thus will be no gun blazing divorce as that will only destabilize your child. Your husband needs to be in his own to figure this out for himself.
You are not his caretaker. I wish you the best. I cannot imagine what this is like for you. You have way more to deal with than infidelity my dear one. An get this figured out. Unless he wants it. Unless he is willing to put in the effort. So sorry for you. I hope if you do Divorce you can get it to go smoothly. For your sake and your child. Email will not be published required. Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. You can also subscribe without commenting.
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed. This short guide tells you what you need to know to survive the affair, heal yourself and emerge on the other side a stronger person. Emotional Affair Journey Follow our journey as we save our marriage after an emotional affair. Sticking to the code of silence — Never tell.
If questioned…Deny, deny, deny. Feeling guilt, embarrassment and shame. Protecting the affair partner. To avoid a confrontation. To avoid potential loss — their marriage, their kids, their home, their finances, their social standing, etc.
To not have their lies be uncovered or mixed up. To avoid further discovery of affair details and facts. To avoid triggering their spouse. The affair details may be foggy after several months or years. The unfaithful person has successfully compartmentalized and filed the details away to avoid dealing with them.
In other words, to be the one in control. Unwilling or unable to take responsibility for his or her actions. To avoid arguments, angry outbursts and other unpleasantness. Fight or flight instincts. The CS has a long history of lying and avoidance. He or she is just being an asshole. Why is it so hard for the unfaithful to talk about the affair?
Tim says… Especially at the beginning when my wife requested to have conversation about it, I was very resistant. When Affair Partners Marry: When There is a Child as a Result of an Affair. TryingHard October 24, at 9: Doug October 24, at Joey October 24, at TryingHard October 24, at But I hear you what you say. Hopeful October 24, at 1: Shifting Impressions October 24, at 2: Nearly Normal October 24, at 5: Just a little venting, I suppose.
Puzzled October 25, at 1: Sucks to be us on some days… Reply. Nearly Normal October 25, at 4: TheFirstWife October 25, at 2: I just wonder how they do not understand that. Puzzled October 25, at 9: Rose October 27, at 2: Hopeful October 25, at 3: Hopeful, Some days I am like you and I can just let it go.
Hopeful October 30, at 4: Nearly Normal, I really took a while to work through what I needed to know. TheFirstWife October 24, at 9: I took the calm and loving approach after both DDay1 and DDay2. I got lies and hiding of answers etc. Yes the A ended at DDay2. I accept he is a coward. Exercisegrace October 25, at TheFirstWife October 25, at 8: Glad to see you are still here with us.
I think you made a great point that your imagination of the A was much worse than the reality. TryingHard October 25, at 9: He might tell you daily that he gave up his mistress and that he really felt nothing for her; but a feeling inside of you tells you that he still could be seeing her for lunch in secret.
You want this time to be the last. The pain with D-Day was so great that you cannot imagine going through it again and again. You know how important his continued fidelity is because it not only reflects the recovery process, but also the long-term health of you and your marriage. But there is good news because future behaviors are all about probabilities. So, whether you can rebuild for the long term depends on the type of cheater that you are with. It is imperative to be able to tell the difference between a man who cheated and probably never will again and a serial cheater.
This is important so that you can make an informed decision. If you are with a cheater who can be reformed, you can go on with your life with him and rebuild your marriage. But, if you are with a serial cheater, there is a pretty high chance your marriage will be one of continued drama and trauma.
Until your husband is completely out of the affair fog , you will not be able to tell what kind of cheater you are with. Both types of cheaters are going to display the same exact kind of behaviors when they are in the affair fog.
If they are still in the affair fog, they will act erratically, they change their minds almost hourly about both you and the mistress, they will seem like a Jekyll and Hyde type, and they will have a lot of narcissistic traits. They also may indulge in drinking or other substances more than usual.
But the worst part is, when they are in the affair fog, you usually no longer recognize them as your husband. Where did your prince charming go? I categorize cheating husbands into two main categories based on whether or not they are a good bet for your future. These descriptive names pretty much say it all: Reverse Prince Charming RPC is basically the guy who puts his car in reverse and drives off to meet the needs of any woman but his wife.
Fallen Prince Charming FPC is the average good guy who falls off his white horse, but who is poised to get back up and head home to make things work at the castle. After all, both Reverse Prince Charming and Fallen Prince Charming usually say the exact same things, whether they are in or out of the affair fog.
While both types are in the affair fog, they say nasty things, they lie, and they act distant and sometimes even behave as if they could leave at any moment. When they are out of the affair fog, they both show remorse, plead for you to stay, and sometimes make you feel like you are the only woman on earth. Fallen Prince Charming is sincere in his protestations of love and remorse while Reverse Prince Charming has a selfish agenda and says the right things as a manipulation tactic.
Fallen Prince Charming wants to genuinely patch things up; Reverse Prince Charming puts on a show because of a number of self-serving motives. Fallen Prince Charming wants his marriage to work, while Reverse Prince Charming just wants to have his cake and eat it too.
So, he tells each woman what each of them want to hear and does everything to make his wife believe that he has turned over a new leaf. Reverse Prince Charming is very scary indeed and if you are married to one, it is best to cut him loose. I have put together a list of behaviors for both men that you can use as a comparison for the future.
Of course, this list is valid only after the affair fog has melted away. In deciding what to do, probabilities are everything. As I mentioned earlier, Stephen Covey says that past behavior is indicative of future behavior. If your husband has done something many times in the past, there is a high probability that he will do it in the future.
For example, if he has spent many Sundays for the past 10 years playing golf, there is a high probability that in the coming years he will spend many more Sundays playing golf.
He has made playing golf on Sundays a habit and so golf will be a hard habit to break. It turns out habits are hard-wired because as we repeat an action, neural pathways in our brains get made to reinforce the action.
This is why trying to change a habit with sheer willpower can be hard. Habits must be replaced with concrete, repeatable actions in order to replace them. Old neural pathways need to be trimmed back and new ones formed. You need to figure out if physical affairs are the norm for your husband. Here are some cases or personality issues where affairs could be or at least become a norm for your husband:.
Here I would like to separate out physical affairs and emotional affairs. I believe emotional affairs are far more common than any of us might believe because they can masquerade as friendship. I also believe that many men and women can easily fall into emotional affairs. Everyone experiences unmet needs and how a person reacts to that experience can predict whether or not they can easily fall into an emotional affair. We all have needs for validation from others. Most people look to their spouses for validation, as they should.
A spouse should be our number one champion and in our corner at all times. A person can use it as a growing opportunity and learn to meet his or her emotional needs in healthy ways. Or, a spouse can intentionally put himself in situations where he can be adored by other women and receive validation from them.
But, to clarify, I think everyone more or less experiences validation from others as a positive experience. The difference is that people with a healthy sense of self do not actively seek it out and do not engage in relationships just for the sake of validation.
People with a healthy sense of self do not need constant validation from those other than their spouse. But, for those who need constant adoration and validation, they will seek it out. Otherwise, they might feel like an empty shell or even feel abandoned. He was very out-going and loved to flirt.
He loved having female friends and constant attention. He was obviously making up for lost time. I remember going to his year high school reunion with him. There was a woman there who had been the blond that every boy idolized during high school. She was still extremely attractive and sassy. There was one funny thing…The blond believed that I was the high school homecoming queen and her main rival from her graduating class.
But, then something interesting happened. The fact that the alleged homecoming queen had pre-selected him made him all the more valuable in her eyes. Some women really like men who other women have selected. This is why some men get more attention while wearing a wedding ring. For insecure women, they get quite a kick out of stealing a man with an attractive wife. The most important part was that he got absolutely high off the ego boost she gave him.
Now, she was approaching him and flirting with him and even upping the ante once she thought her former rival was attached to him. At the time, I was very supportive of him getting an ego boost from the flirtation. So, I was happy that he was receiving validation from someone who never knew he existed prior to that moment.
At the time, I felt like it was a victory for all of us high school ugly ducklings and late bloomers. In fact, he had started getting a lot of notice well before he met me. At the time, I figured that it was a phase that he would outgrow.
I believed that since he had professed his moral values, he would never cheat. If I had been looking for the signs at the time, I would have realized that his need for constant, external validation had become a habit and even borderline addiction for him. At the time, I did not realize that this kind of thing easily leads to emotional affairs and where there is an emotional affair, a physical affair might not be too far off. But, no, at the time, I was a self-professed feminist and not a petty, jealous girlfriend.
I reasoned that I should feel proud of him and glad for him since he was now getting positive attention from others. Well, he too easily ran with it and broke up with me for someone who wanted to move into our mutually owned home. On the other hand, as men get older, I do believe that they can temper their need for attention with maturity. Considering he did marry the other woman, I am guessing she got what she deserved in him. I scoured the internet and chat boards to find comments from men who have cheated.
Here is what one anonymous RPC says about himself:. I have done this many times with other women, but I have no intention of leaving my wife. My wife knows about the two affairs that I have admitted to.
I tell the other woman that she is being used for everything I am not getting at home. These other women are my fantasy, my sexual fantasy, my ego booster when I go out. Most men do not upgrade great sex to wife…. How long can two dishonest people maintain a healthy relationship? The other woman wants more time and I give them just enough to keep them there. I say what they want to hear just to keep them close. He has a long history of infidelity, he has no intention of leaving his wife and also no intention of leaving his mistress, and he knows exactly what he is doing, yet he feels no remorse.
Unfortunately, would a fellow like this tell his wife everything? I would also venture to guess that this fellow is not trustworthy in other aspects of his life.
He would probably make a bad business partner or even friend to other men since through his behavior he has established that people are there for his use. The affair becomes a mechanism for acting out just as drinking too much becomes a mechanism for acting out some kind of inner pain, struggle, stress, emptiness, or even anger. A workaholic could use work as the mechanism for acting out, but there is a much deeper issue within that individual.
In all affairs a mistress is an object for use, but in this type of affair the mistress is no better than a toothbrush or other grooming object. Does that mean you should stay? But, it does put the almost impersonal nature of the affair into perspective. These folks are in the minority and yet they do so much harm to society.
Most importantly, there is no working it through with personality-disordered men. So, if you find out you have one, it might be best to leave. In the prior section, we saw that the two factors that stood out for a Reverse Prince Charming was that he had a history of infidelity and he had no desire to stop having affairs. His behavior is marked by abject selfishness and he would make for a poor partner even without affairs.
As I talk [about it] my heart sinks deeper into the shame and dishonor that permeates my very skin. I feel like such a piece of garbage. No amount of physical pleasure or mental stimulation will compensate for the ridiculousness of my behavior.
I believe that this fellow fits into the category of a Fallen Prince Charming for several reasons. The first is that he does not mention having several affairs—his focus is obviously on one large affair. He also feels tremendous remorse for what he has done.
He also feels the requisite shame of such an encounter. Finally, he has insight into the idea that no matter how fun at was at the time, it obviously did not excuse his behavior. I think in every affair lays the potential for tremendous tragedy. I am talking about the kind of tragedy that we see in epic, ancient Greek dramas—the kind where families are ruined and this ruin extends for generations to come.
The protagonist in such a drama is always left with the painful insight and the understanding all that has occurred at his own hand, yet, for many reasons is powerless to change anything. The deeds have been done and the consequences meated out —nothing can be undone no matter how many tears of anguish are shed and no matter how much regret weighs heavily on the heart.
I think the most wretched type of affair is when a man wakes up to his actions too late. This type of man may have long since left his wife, married his mistress, and then in the future comes to realize exactly what he has lost and what he has done. He has left a legacy of innocent victims in his wake, his children are estranged, his ex-wife has long since forgotten him and possibly remarried.
I believe that this type of hell is probably worse than any kind of fire and brimstone of which the Old Testament speaks. For this is a very personal type of hell and one knows exactly what one has done and has to live with the consequences. My wish is that all men who have affairs could be given a crystal ball so they could see that kind of future where all of the embers of romance have long since burned out and there is even no cold comfort for him.
All he is left with is what he has done and how he has lived his life. In the end, when a man has an affair, he must live with what he did for the rest of his life. There are no do-overs for past mistakes, there is only forgiveness. But even forgiveness does not undo the act itself. Well, it all depends on what you are willing to live with.
Whether or not you choose to stay, you need to reach a point where you engage in radical acceptance. Radical acceptance actually helps you come to peace with the situation. The fact is, we cannot change another, no matter how hard we try. In fact, when we expect something of someone that he is not capable of, this causes us pain each time he fails.
For example, most husbands will participate in exhausting mental acrobatics to downplay the affair. Other times, they will lie. But, liars are usually caught and each time they are caught in a lie, they cause pain and disappointment to another. But, it does not have to be that way. Karyn Hall, PhD says:. Accepting reality is difficult when life is painful.
No one wants to experience pain, disappointment, sadness or loss. But those experiences are a part of life. When you attempt to avoid or resist those emotions, you add suffering to your pain. You may build the emotion bigger with your thoughts or create more misery by attempting to avoid the painful emotions. You can stop suffering by practicing acceptance.
Acceptance means you can begin to heal. Resisting reality delays healing and adds suffering to your pain. When you practice acceptance everyday, you may be more prepared when the most difficult experiences in life occur. Acceptance gives an alternative even when living in a situation that will not change. There is no rule that says you need to divorce a cheating husband and also no rule that says you need to stay. You must ultimately be true to yourself. However, if you choose to stay, accepting that you will be lied to and refusing to expect more than your husband is capable of brings a sense of equilibrium.
That is, acceptance allows you to remain balanced each time you catch your husband in a lie or otherwise. You can stay or you can go , but accept what your husband is able to give and accept what he is not able to give.
Finally, remember that past behavior is indicative of future behavior, so that is the best bet you have in terms of a crystal ball. Beauty is ageless, beauty does not belong to one race or type of woman, beauty is not the sole domain of thin women. It does not matter if a woman is 25 years old or 85 years old— an attractive woman is well-groomed and holds herself with dignity.
She has a beauty that is found within and shows through her eyes and smile. But, I like this definition of beauty that has been attributed to the late and great Audrey Hepburn:.
People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed: As you grow older, you will discover that you have two hands; one for helping yourself and the other for helping others. The caveat here is physical abuse. When a man is severely physically abusive, even if he does it occasionally, this is a situation where a woman must leave.
This becomes doubly true if children are involved. I remember working with a woman in my former profession whom, when she was 6 months pregnant, had her husband push her down the stairs. She went flying and it is a miracle she did not lose the baby. Like all abusers, there was nothing she did to provoke him and she was caught completely off guard. She was no stranger to the occasional unprovoked slap or punch in the face.
This is what I am referring to when I talk about physical abuse. She did not leave because when the man was in the honeymoon romance phase of the cycle of abuse, he was full of love, promises to change, gifts, compliments, passion for her, etc. When a man participates in repeated cycles of physical abuse like this, there is no end to the cycle until a woman leaves.
It is really a tragic situation for all involved, especially since it is so difficult for a woman to get out for good. Emotional Affairs , history of infidelity , husband had an affair , men who have affairs , physical affairs , serial cheaters.
And then he admitted to me he told one of his friends from grad school. Of course it was a woman, gorgeous, much younger etc. In any event I was furious and it appeared once again that he just did not get it. He was open and honest for years with everyone but me!! I seriously wonder how many EAs he had that I did not know about. And possibly PAs as well. Great to know how your spouse can just humiliate you over and over again.
Great to realize how you were really thought of. Yes this is what affairs and cheating and sexting and inappropriate texts leaves behind. The fog is so real even after dday. My husband still does not remember things he said before and after dday. Most in self preservation mode or just to make himself feel less guilt and shame. What is interesting is I see both of these types in my husband. I always thought I was the insecure one, the less confident one. But I was so wrong.
All along he was the one lacking, so insecure, so needy, so immature, selfish. And the worst thing is he was so good at manipulating and lying. There is sadness for me in all of this but actually freedom.
The best part of dday for me is the realization of what was. It was nothing like I thought. I listened to my husband and his narrative all those years.
It is hard to think about lost time and being used but all I can do is celebrate today. I cannot undo the past. No matter what happens I am sure of who I am and always honest and true. So true everything you said. My H actually admitted some of his behavior was egotistical. And now I am strong and confident. This challenge in life showed me who I really am. And what I can manage. But I am really glad to know that you are standing strong. My H now sends me his travel plans and hotel reservations and tells me about delays etc.
The OW told me that. When I saw the Amex bill with his flight on the bill it was true. I learned after too many frustrating and anguish filled days the CS is most likely not going to be completely honest and will continue to lie to cover their butts. Is he the Fallen Prince or Reverse Prince? Some days I have no clue. So I have no rules at this point. If he wants me he knows what to do.
If he wants to be a liar and cheater for the rest of his life, that is his choice. But if I find out then it is my choice on my next step. Once I adopted this attitude I felt so much better. Less stress, no worries, not obsessed with tracking him down or is he where he says he is behavior.
I could smell the alcohol from across the room. He says two beers. I said not buying it. Without going into all the details I was curious he lied. He says 2 beers. I finally told him that I am not his mother and if he wants to go and drink to please not drive. But I am not going to control you. You are an adult. But I cannot tolerate that behavior either. It is now his choice. But I was more upset about the lie. And he swears he is not lying. So I am creating a life for me.
Making sure I sm happy. He can come along or not. But he is no longer my 1 concern. It is sad when the light behind to dawn and you see things for what they really were, not how you thought they were.
My H has always treated me well so I never would have suspected unhappiness or affairs. TFW, I know what you mean about the trust issue. For example, he had a lot of female friends. When we live together he had this girl from France come and stay with us. He had always told me that it was platonic and that she was not even his type.
This French girl was also engaged to someone that he knew so I figured it was totally safe for her to stay with us. She was very outgoing, spoke English brilliantly, and really took a liking to me and I figured she could be a friend.
Since I trusted them, there were several times when I would go out on grocery store runs or take out runs for us. They would stay alone at the house together. Stupid me, I thought everyone was trustworthy just like myself. Anyhow, each time I would come back, both of them haf just gotten out of the shower.
Now, we had two showers and so I assumed they simply want to take showers in 2 separate bathrooms at the same time. They both kind of acted sheepishly when I would return, but in my mind I thought nobody could actually stoop that low.
Because, after all, she had befriended me and acted like she wanted to help me make my relationship with him work. After all, she was engaged, and besides she was not even his type! But, having the knowledge of hindsight, I now know that they were probably having fun in the shower together. I seriously believed that she was my friend. So, I think when cheaters are married to those who have ironclad integrity, they can easily fool their spouses.
It would be easier for me to take a trip to Mars down to go after a man who was taken. I am speaking in the context if I were single. One day recently my husband admitted to me that his very worst nightmare in life would be to be married to a woman who cheated.
He knows his mind well and says that he would so upset over it so much it would likely destroy him. He also said one of the reasons it was so easy to get married to me was because he could tell I am the type that would never betray him. And he is right. Knock on wood he can return the same level of integrity over the long haul.
He is nearing midlife crisis or age but not there yet. We are both not that young but not enough to still look very youthful. Hope to God my personality is enough to keep him. Sarah P, I totally agree with you regarding your statement about the ease a cheater has to cheat on a person with ironclad integrity.
In retrospect he just admitted this last year I would have not suspected a thing back then because I did not think that way. Although, I knew her marriage was horrible her husband physically, verbally and emotionally abused her.
We are both in our early 60s now and have been together since we were 16 and 17 years old. Last year he admitted to virtually being unfaithful to me since the beginning a real reverse Prince Charming with some fallen Prince Charming tendencies. Twenty years ago I suspected that he was up to no good but he adamantly denied it. And I did not press the issue denial. I made him tell our adult daughters as well.
That was devastating for all of us but more for him when he had to see the hurt and disappointment in their eyes. He has vowed to totally turn away: We have been to counseling as well. I can truly truly say I did not know the man I had spent my essentially whole life with…an evil, self-centered, deceitful, immoral, cowardly, deeply-hidden fragile ego of a man. I am observing and accepting this NEW man…with my eyes wide open because before my eyes wide shut!
Our 40th wedding anniversary will be coming up soon…and I am in a 2 year lung cat scan observance to see if I have lung cancer please pray for me …I never smoked but he does.
I know how you feel. My husband treated me well. But yet cheated multiple times and I suspect there may be more. Having to realize you never really knew the person you have been married to for all those years cannot be put into words. I will pray for your health issues to disappear.
And then live a long and happy life as revenge to him. TheFirstWife, Thank you so much! I pray for my possible health issue to not be a real issue. Also, I pray to have a genuinely happy rest of my life. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. I do believe that my cheating husband is receiving his pay-back… Every time he looks in the mirror, every time he sees or talks with his daughters and every time he looks at me. It is really too bad and I find some what convenient that now in his old age he sees ALL the errors of his ways.
I think most people do not want others to know they are very bad vile people. His well-hidden at least from my daughters and myself secrets are out I am pretty sure his family and friends knew. I could and still can look myself in the mirror and feel good about myself. He could back then I guess or he would have stopped this behavior…but does seem to have difficulty now. That is his problem to deal with.
Thanks again for your prayers. Hello Nancy, First off, I will certainly pray for you! I believe God heals and I have often thought about writing a book about some of the awesome healings I have witnessed in both others and myself. Still, I am glad that you are seeking medical intervention. No matter what happens, always ask God to send his help. After all, when men fail we can count on God. I sincerely hope you have lots of loving real friends and family who can help you through this.
You did nothing to deserve it. Your husband needs to do a lot to show he is a changed man. Are there any new boundaries you set on the relationship? I do believe that your husband can change with the grace of God but it has to be real.
I am so glad that you told your children because your husband needs to live with the consequences. I have a story about what my life could have been if I had married my first boyfriend. So, I only dated seriously after I was in college. I never would have thought he turned out to be that person who constantly cheated. His dad was a macho middle manager at a car manufacturer. Still, we had talked about marriage all the time and he intended to marry me and made that clear.
Then, one day he started acting really cold, right before Christmas break, and he broke up. But, that did not last long and we were back together, stronger than ever.
Apparently it was one-sided. I remember not being angry with her. She was actually pretty cool. She called it as she saw it. She came to me and told me and apologized because she felt used. No one was in the student lounge but us. He ended up crying because he was so startled. Then he proceeded to tell me that there were 6 other women and they kind of rotated through his schedule.
I was shocked because of the number. Maybe good old Bill had hired Charles as his spin doctor? So it was I argued with Charles about why receiving a BJ actually is cheating. We argued until one of the other women came along. I will call her PJ. So PJ came along because it was study time and so she decided to ask Charles if he felt like studying with her. Studying was the code word for when PJ wanted to give a…. Charles has told me all about you!
Charles got mad and told me I had no right to talk to her that way. And I told Charles that he had no right to tell me that. I got up and left. Charles had gone to see the campus doctor because of a strange, white infection in his mouth.
And so it was I got to learn that with PJ he was being less selfish and actually giving. But, Charles was very angry with the doctor at the student health clinic and had no one to talk to about it. He was angry with the doctor because he said that the doctor had looked at him, the doctor had laughed, and the doctor said and I quote again: He could not believe the campus doctor had humiliated him.
And so I asked Charles why on earth he was telling me all of this. Needless to say, I ended it with Charles and he literally could not understand why. Charles had no insight and could not understand why I was mad. I left for the west coast for the summer and my parents gave him my mailing address.
So I would get these long letters from him not apologies telling me why I was wrong and why his actions did not count as cheating. I did a bunch of return to senders but the letters kept coming. He told me I could not leave and he was not accepting the break up. I tried engaging with Charles on a level playing field and telling him we were done. I told him the reason that we could not be together was because I no longer liked men, I told him that I had shaved off my long, wavy hair, and that I had joined a cult and would be worshipping trees from then on out.
Of course, I said all of this in a sarcastic tone, but Charles believed I was serious and no more letters came that summer. I got back to campus in the fall and the first mutual friend to see me was Jen. Charles told us all that you had shaved your head, joined a tree worshipping cult, and no longer liked men! Charles got a very sweet elementary education major and got engaged to her. I would often see her in one of the large campus computer labs and often felt the need to approach her and tell her what she was in for.
But, I did not. I figured that she would not believe me and besides, why get Charles on my trail again? And that is how I dodged that particular bullet. But if you are a regular reader, you will know that there were many cheating bullets to dodge after that. By the way, it turned out that Charles cheated on her too with the same 6 women.
I hope everyone got a laugh from the Charles story. He is living proof that men say and do some pretty dumb things when they are in the affair fog. Nancy, I sincerely hope everything goes better for you soon. You will be in my prayers and I have a feeling that your husband will be able to work things through. I hope he treats you like gold, because you deserve nothing less.
Sarah, Thank you, thank you, thank you! Your story made me laugh so much. After we broke up, I actually wrote and illustrated a comic book based on all the crazy things he said.
For example, instead of joining the anti-domestic violence rallies on campus, he would write letters to campus administration telling them that the janitors were not doing their jobs and should be fired. He would say things like: I have so many funny stories about the things he said and did that are truly funny.
Of course, he never understood what I was laughing at. I am ashamed to say I dated him but I was 18 at the time. Laughter is the best medicine and see if there is anything you can laugh at in the situation. Because men will say someone pretty humorous things when in the midst of an affair. But I am not trying to downplay the situation when I say that. I say it because laughing is better than crying…. Sometimes I have thought about would it have been better to have not known.
I say no it would have not. I honestly think the deceit and trustworthiness is as bad as the sexual act. So he had given everyone the power but me. Even though their affair ended 30 years ago we still would see her infrequently.
The same with the family friend. I did confront both of them and told them what I thought of them. HI Nancy, Wow, everyone knew but you. That sounds very typical. I am glad that he told you though. I believe more men cheat than we will ever know. What was interesting about him was that he was open about commenting when he thought someone was cute.
He was sort of a flirt, too. At the time I was hyper-vigilant since he was the boyfriend after Charles. So why did he flirt around me? One of my girlfriends told me she saw this other girl in our group pretty much proposition him for sex in front of everyone and he said no.
Also he ended up telling me about it later too. I know he wanted to get married because he would talk about it. He was about 2. I was not ready. I moved to Europe for study abroad and then went to my first grad degree in Europe. Do I regret not marrying him? Funny enough, my husband reminds me so much of him in every way. Their first names also rhyme with each other. But my point is, I dated a lot of people before I got married in trying to locate Mr. I can only think of one boyfriend that did not cheat.
So, I think that your story might be more common than you think. Pretty much everyone, male or female, but her. I remember having a boss proposition me in and I was upset. When I told some coworkers about it, I found out I was not the first he propositioned and I also found out there were a ton of office affairs.
I did not take it to HR and just let it go. I think if every guy and gal who had an affair confessed, I think there would be a very high adultery rate in this country.
I do think there is hope for your marriage and right now your husband needs to be there for YOU. He needs to make up for the past by getting you through this health concern. I read a study on the Dr. Mercola website that demonstrated that people who have over 10,iu of vitamin D3 per day have a dramatically decreased risk of all cancers.
This is something you can do now. The other thing that decreased risk is minutes of cardio per week as well as daily juicing. Try lots of fresh zucchini if you can stomach it. It also decreases cancers and fights them off.
I lightly steam it in water with sea salt and virgin olive oil. Keeping your health in check is the most important thing. I will pray for you. I would love to hear how you have progressed since May. I want the pivotal perspective to focus on me to make me happy versus worrying where he is and what he is doing. I am so sorry for you. We have all been in your exact place. Devastation is the only word I can use to describe it. That may make a difference in how you approach this. Other than having to be present for me teen kids at the time, I was devastated.
He was walking out the door on us when I hsd DDay 1. He was divorcing me at DDay 2 but yet we are still married and togeyher and pretty happy. Our marriage has changed for the better in many ways.
But everyday for almost a year I felt I had to scrape myself off the floor just to get through the day. I think there was a lot of good information here on this blog and I have to tell you that having others that I could share my experience with, who totally get it, made my life easier and provided me with some excellent advice. I hope you can go back and read some of the posts because they contain some very helpful information.
Just so that you know there are some typical behaviors that the cheating spouse takes on that seem to be fairly standard. In my case my husband continue to lie about all the facts and details surrounding the affair. That seems pretty common. That is also pretty common. You may ask questions and not get an answer at all.
The gaslighting, stonewalling and lying all go hand-in-hand. I wish you the best and hope that you can take some time right now to just breathe and not make any big decisions. And he can send you all the passwords to his social media accounts and everything. She could be at the same hotel. They can have a secret online password account. They can have telephones that are disposable. They can keep electronics in their desk at work. They can use social media apps to talk to each other on the phone even around the country ….
And Yes no one wants to be the warden and acting so is an effort in futility. You never send the email. Your communication lives in the draft folder. Your AP has the password and can see what you have written and can write a response and simply save the draft. It has been many things gradually over the past year. And what seemed hard at first has become regular habit. And at the bottom of this I can see looking back where he avoided anything to do with me because again it made him feel worse about himself so he detached.
Basically everything needed to change or adjust related to my husbands beahavior. Before making plans to go out checking with me, when going out telling me where, when and who he is with.
If they go somewhere else or things change contact me. When he is out updates are given. Not staying out past 10 unless planned due to it being an event. Setting boundaries with parents and friends. When going out acting as if I am next to him.
If there is any contact by any ow I am to be notified immediately. And I am sure there are more. When he goes out he texts me all night. He gets home and says it was not fun like it used to be since then it was an escape and now he wants to be with me.
It is sometimes surreal how much things have changed. It is all good but sometimes I am skeptical and guarded. It is hard to think am I letting my guard down too much. In the end I have granted a second chance. I will not know if it is the best decision or worse decision until it is too late.
But I keep at it since I do not give up. It can be hard some days but I can see where he has transformed himself. But in the end the hardest thing is thinking he was capable of al those horrible things he did.
Saying that his explanation is he was in a bad place personally that he allowed his boundaries to shift and that he learned for it. He says this is his biggest wake up call and he will do everything he can to make sure that me giving him that second chance is worth it. He says he is here for me more than ever and he looks forward to our time together and sharing the rest of our lives. All good but I still get skeptical.
I am skeptical because I do not EVER want to give him the power to hurt me or deceive me as he had done in the past. I am accepting what type of man he was one hundred percent. He was brought in a family where cheating was the norm: He was brought up in a family where cheating was the norm: I understand nature vs nurture but even if every male role model in his life cheats he knows it is wrong and he made the bad choice. He denied it the entire time. His second and third affsirs with same OW was mid life crisis.
He now regrets all of it. The lack of communication over last 20 years. No accountability on time coming home, walking in the door at 3 am when he said he would be home by 11 pm. Deep regrets and remorse.
I agree I will never be victimized by him again. I have my plan B in place. I went to therapy and got my act together to be a better parent and person. I am still happy in my life with or without him.
I would be saddened if we divorced but not devastated or surprised. I second that… living well is the best revenge. Living well IS the best…for me. He did go to therapy. We had therapy separately and then ended with therapy together.
I am totally looking out for my interest. Again, please pray for me. Not telling me young female coworker was on a business trip with him. Not the OW but still should have been discussed.
PS- I am going to say straight up that if I found out my husband had affairs I would tell him that he should have told me we had an open marriage— that way I could have found my own cake and eaten it too. Now would I actually have found my cake? The purpose of such a statement would have been to simply shake him up and make him realize what it would have been like if I had slept with other men.
Okay my new favorite line is yours about the open marriage!!! I am going to use that some day. This post is one of the best that I have ever read!
And I have read a lot!!! The reverse Prince Charming fits my ex to a tee!!